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The only person I can trust anymore is who has a great brain and a great heart. Well, at some point publicists took over the talk shows.They were the people that booked the guests, and they had six or seven guests, so you had to be awfully nice to Guest A if you wanted to get to Guest B or C. It’s no secret you were slightly insanely self-critical and competitive about your work.I was in Santa Monica, at the Ocean Park Café, and this woman comes over and she says, “Are you who I think you are? The first time he came on By 2012, you’re making fun of his hair apparatus and explaining to him that his ties were being made in China. He’d sit down, and I would just start making fun of him. Beyond that, I remember a friend in the PR business told me that he knew for a fact — this was three or four presidential campaigns ago — that Donald Trump would never run for president; he was just monkeying around for the publicity. Say the head of the family, let’s say his name was Larry Wasserstein. Alec Baldwin deserves a Presidential Medal of Freedom. Don would say, “Rex, if you’re talking to your friends, ask them” — I’m sure the Russians groomed Trump. And by the way, we’re not paying the last 10 percent of the bill.” I think it’s the same shit. Who the fuck are you to throw a log in the road of somebody who has a different set of difficulties in life? He would really rather not have a society where free speech was going to be a factor. His theory was, with the six o’clock news, the last thing people wanted to hear more of was young Americans dying painfully.” And I said, “That depends on who you think I am.” She said, I said, “Yeah, yeah, I am.” She said, “Oh my God” — she has a whole story. If anybody fucked me up, it was me, by getting old and stupid. I was one of a few people who had routinely interviewed him. I always regarded him as, if you’re going to have New York City, you gotta have a Donald Trump. So I assumed that was the story and now it turns out he’s the president. If Larry behaved the way Donald behaves, for even a six-week period, the family would get together and say, “Jesus, somebody better call the doctor.” Then they’d ask him to step down. Sadly, he’s not going to get it from this president. On the other hand, Donald Trump can be Donald Trump, but if he doesn’t help the people that need help, then he’s just a jerk. This thing about her telling everyone, “Go buy Ivanka’s shoes; I’m going to go buy Ivanka’s shoes. They gave him tips: “You want to be an authoritarian dictator? We’ll tell you how to do it, for God’s sake.” I think it was just all like that, because that’s the way Trump does business: “See if they’ll give us the tar coating? Do you feel any better about your fellow Indianan Mike Pence? Aside from and Alec Baldwin, who else in late-night TV comedy is doing good work? I’m telling you, there’s something between him and the Russians. ” “Tell him red.” “They say red, Don.” “Okay, red it is.” I do like the idea that Putin has something on Don and decided: “Let’s get him in office, and we’ll get things to go our way.” That’s beginning to sound like an Alex Jones theory, but that’d be fun, wouldn’t it? I mean, that would make Ed Snowden look like a third-grade shop teacher … I’m not sure how that comparison shakes out in terms of Fallon. We used to have a joke we’d do about booking guests: “Guess what? ” “Neil Armstrong is going to be on the show.” “Neil Armstrong?When people around me would come up with ideas, I felt like, We’re just going to produce some little precious moment here and put it up on the internet?But nobody wants to sit through an eight-minute interview with fill-in-the-blank. But the idea of Twitter: Trumpy — my son, Harry, and I call him “Trumpy” — has really got something with it. We don’t need more confirmation that there’s something wrong with Donald Trump. He told me, “Ted Cruz is one of the smartest men I’ve ever met. I was so single-minded in getting through the hour, and sarcasm is so easy. Well, yes, sarcasm probably is mean; but on the other hand, I’m just trying to get a laugh, so leave me alone. Big, big laugh: “Nice shirt.” Good night, everybody!But do I equate it with the possibility of international interference from an authoritarian dictator? I don’t even think of it as the same thing, really. I have a conspiracy theory that your blackmail was a Vladimir Putin long game to get you off the air. And also it was having Monica Lewinsky and President Clinton. We’re always looking for the easiest path, the most obvious joke. We changed our attitude to make it easier on ourselves. Whether it’s Jimmy Kimmel having celebrities read mean tweets about themselves or James Corden and carpool karaoke, part of the job now of a late-night host is to try to generate bits that’ll get shared online.
I said, “Well, that’s all I want to talk about.” If you had a chance to talk to Paris Hilton in those days, you just kind of want to talk about, “Well, no, seriously, you were in jail.” But that upset her and she cried and I called her and apologized. As the guy operating the machinery sometimes, it was “You’re going a little fast here, pal.” It was easy to overdo it. It seems like we don’t have that person now whose life and music and behavior apply to soothing the waters of world strife. It was clear that as went on, you were more interested in the conversations than the comedy. Bill O’Reilly — before he became standard talk-show fare. I stayed away: “Just call me when you’re done.” Going back to the late-night wars — doesn’t the fact that you and so many viewers cared so much about who was winning late night seem a little crazy? For a time, I looked at the ratings every single morning. The universe of worries and anxieties that I possess with regard to my son’s welfare seems to be infinite. A regular day is structured around my wife and son. But my days — I was just in California with some people. So I do a lot of that, and I do a lot of pro bono work, as they say in the legal industry. I’m not finding the damn shoelaces, and finally I think, .
Paul’s son, Will, is applying for colleges now, and his kid is fascinating to me. Is there anything about your career you can say you’re proud of? I’m going to get the rights to that back, and then I’ll be doing it. Is being on the production side interesting to you? Years ago, I wanted Worldwide Pants to be an ongoing organism whereby we could continue to employ people and develop material. It was explained to me that that production model doesn’t hold up anymore.
Paul is maybe the least athletic person I’ve met in my life, but Will’s a high-school quarterback and his hope is to apply to a school where he can walk on and try to make the team. I have this conversation with my wife, who is also a schmo. Think of all of the people you employed.” I thought, I was able to give jobs to people. But as far as on-camera stuff, there really isn’t anything you can look back at and say, “That was pretty good”? Because he had his little TV show that did quite well and he loves being on the road. So Worldwide Pants ran out of steam for lack of opportunity. It would be fun not to be involved in traditional ABC, NBC, CBS television.
Some nights the show would be okay; some nights the show would not be okay. He pursued two interests of his, and now he’s got other people watching it and paying him huge sums of money. There’s a billion different places to put something now.
But the one thing you can’t assail is what my wife was shrewd enough to point out, so that’s what I have settled on.
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But despite the work of Stephen Colbert, Seth Meyers, , and the rest, it’s hard not to wish Letterman, late-night’s greatest ironist and most ornery host, was still around to take aim. If you’re a comedian or a late-night host, is there a responsibility to be taking on Trump?